Emergence LO10532

jack hirschfeld (jack@his.com)
Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:08:28 -0400

Replying to LO10490 --

There was a wonderful series of print ads about a decade ago all of which
illustrated the sales-line, "Is your network under control?"

The most memorable illustration was a famous photo of a locomotive
emerging from the front of an urban railway terminal about 30 feet above
the ground. Spectacular!

But my favorite was a photo of a person on a city street straining to hold
on to about 20 dog leashes, as the dogs strain to pull in every imaginable
direction.

The question here is, of course, who is doing the "controlling"?

Michael McMaster, in a thoughtful, careful response to Rol Fessenden,
explains once again his view that "control" does not apply to living
systems, although it may apply to inert physical systems. This is a view
that I share. I was puzzled, therefore, by Mike's footnote:

>*Note: control doesn't apply to living systems AS LIVING SYSTEMS.
>It appplies to parts of living systems or those ones that can be
>viewed as physical, material systems. For instance, I can move my
>hand with more or less complete control by the mechanics of nerves,
>muscles, etc.

This relies on the dualistic myth that "I" and "my hand" are two different
entities.

In different language, Mike and I have disputed this matter in this space
before, but this particular expression of his point of view helps me to
better understand how we differ. For Michael, apparently, "I" and "my
hand" are distinct systems, even though one may reside in the other. If
one chooses to think of the hand as a physical, material system, then "I"
can act on it.

In my perspective, choosing to think of the hand in that way is illusory,
and its only purpose is to enable that kind of abstract study of it as
object. To me, "my hand" is always subject, or part of the subject, but
never an object until it ceases to live... and I'm not so sure about that.
We may someday develop a concept of organic processes that is not based in
physical chemistry, and our outlook on such "objects" as the hand of a
dead person may change.

To put this another way, (as I see it) my typing of these words is not the
consequence of my "mind" telling my fingers what to do; it is an action
that engages signals and feedback in continuous loops between my hands and
my brain which have assumed the primary responsibility within my body/self
for formulating these messages and setting them down.

--

Jack Hirschfeld All the lonely people, where do they come from? jack@his.com All the lonely people, where do they belong?

Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>