Emergence LO10490

Michael McMaster (Michael@kbddean.demon.co.uk)
Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:56:22 +0000

Replying to LO10470 --

Rol,

I think that we are in complete agreement about influence - the range
between "control" and "observation". I haven't said it that and like
what it provides. Thanks. (That's a keeper.)

You then go on to say:
> The _only_ exception to this is our ability to influence ourselves.

I don't think this is an exception at all. It may sound like
splitting hairs as I continue but it has an implication for
management that will be major. If an individual is an exception and
has control at the "very high" end of the scale, then we are led to
the possibility of a mechanistic approach working - and hence being
validated - when applied to people.

> My own influence on myself is very high, and whether it is 'control' or not
> is too abstract for me to figure out.

I suggest that "control" does not apply to living systems* (or to
non-living complex adaptive systems) but only to material, physical,
mechanistic ones. (In the sense that physics/classical science can
reduce - in theory - that world to mathematical formulae.)

I do not have "control" over myself. I have not met that person in
ordinary life. I have more influence than any single person outside
of myself (I think) but that does not even seem to apply to
everybody. For instance, those people that Joan mentions who cannot
seem to make up their own minds as independent beings.

And I find it valuable to question if I have nearly as much
independent control or influence over myself as I think I have.
(I've engaged in many experiments that shake this belief. Try
Stanley Milgram's book for a real shocker in this area.)

Yes, we can commit ourselves, accept responsibility and choose to be
reliable in our word or not. But even in these areas we seem to be
far from "control" in the sense that you provided so well in your
response. That is, we might consider ourselves to be "at the control
end of the spectrum" but we are still quite far from mechanistic
control.

Thanks for the thoughts.

*Note: control doesn't apply to living systems AS LIVING SYSTEMS.
It appplies to parts of living systems or those ones that can be
viewed as physical, material systems. For instance, I can move my
hand with more or less complete control by the mechanics of nerves,
muscles, etc.

--
Michael McMaster :   Michael@kbdworld.com
book cafe site   :   http://www.vision-nest.com/BTBookCafe
"I don't give a fig for the simplicity this side of complexity 
but I'd die for the simplicity on the other side of complexity." 
            attributed to Chief Justice Brandies
 

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