The Converstion Here LO9161

Julie Beedon (julie@vistabee.win-uk.net)
Fri, 16 Aug 1996 01:42:17

Replying to LO9029 --

I realise this message was sent some time ago and other comments have been
made since - but I have been reflecting on this one for some time and
would like to link my thoughts to some of what has triggered them.

Firstly I, like a lot of people who have responded to this thread, do not
find every message on this list helpful or powerful. I have been
participating in the conversation here for nearly a year now and it has
been a very stimulating rewarding experience. I would say that a week
does not go by when I refer to something I have learned from the people
who have contributed here. By this I mean a number of things, concrete
examples, books I can read (I might never have heard of Michael and I am
thoroughly enjoying his book The Intelligent Organisation), new theories I
can explore (memes is stilling spinning in my head)....

...but most of all - and this has been the most profound for me I have
been given the opportunity to practice some of the theories and
disciplines of LO - I have observed wonderful examples of inquiry and
thoughtful responses which respected the good intentions of the people
they are in dialogue with. I have been inquired of and given the
opportunity to express those assumptions I might otherwise omit to
express. I have learnt to challenge my own assumptions about other people
and test for understanding, I have been guided in this by Rick and have
always found his postings to be wonderful models.

So, individual postings aside, I find the collective which is now the list
to be an intelligent being which I admire and respect and which I know
would continue to exist with or without my individual contribution and to
change and grow with and without my desires, intentions and opinions. I
can only say this because I have been on the list - I would not have been
capable of doing so a year ago.

> If I might be so bold as to
>add, the abstract theorising and philosophising takes away a lot of power
>from this conversation.

What sprung to mind when I first read this were some things from Deming
(who I can never quote precisely) which were around the theory of
knowledge area of his system of profound knowledge. Example without
theory teaches us nothing and management is prediction and to predict we
need a theory. Then I noticed the word 'abstract' which I missed the
first time I read it and I started to wonder what made the discussions on
this list seem abstract. I am not sure I understand enough of what
Jyotsna is defining as abstract to be able to get a sense of this but I am
starting to look at the conversations in a new light and try to
distinguish the abstract theory from the other kind .... I have a sense
that this might help me in my own endeavors to connect theoretical
concepts with practical issues for people. Thank you for that idea.

The other thought it triggers for me is the notion about give a man a fish
he can feed his family for a day - teach him how to fish and he can feed
them for life. The example can help us to deal with the same situation -
the theory can help us to deal with whole ranges of connected situations.
[Then that is probably the pure mathemtician in me showing - I never
wanted to know the answer just how you could work it out.] Perhaps the
message is that people need the fish to eat whilst they are learning to
fish - so we need to get started and concrete examples can help us do that
- then we can connect the theory to tangible realities??

>The most powerful messages I heard were direct sharings about how things
>worked for certain people. For example, I still remember someone(Ben ?
>Robert ? Michael ?) sharing about how he defused a situation in which many
>members of a team showed open hostility to another person on the same
>team.

As I reflect on this statement I am struck by the energy in the
perspective and would want to repect that need as part of what contributes
to the whole that is the list. Although I like to hear these stories I
find the power is in the discussion of them afterwards - I often collect
whole threads and develop resources for myself out of the dialogue which
develops. If the list was merely the stories I think I would probably go.

>Other memorable messages dealt with "how-to" and gave direct,
>implementable tips on ways to deal with hostile or uncomfortable
>situations.
>In all these cases, I , for one, found active coaching in the areas
>I've mentioned and that was what made being on this list
>productive, for me .

The theme I pick out from all of this is that Jyotsna is extracting much
that is useful from the myriads of exchanges which go on here and I would
not want to deny anyone the opportunity to do that.

>I think the objective of this list is to actively support
>achieving learning organisations all over the world, and in the
>domains of all people who are members of this list.
> >Do you really think we are doing that ?

I am feeling actively supported and by the sound of it some of the things
I do not find helpful others do. I am worried about the whole notion that
we should seek to stop any of the conversations here because they do not
fit our perspective of what is useful. My sense is that if no-one is
finding them useful they will die of their own accord because no one will
read or reply to them. If they are continuing then someone somewhere is
getting something useful from them and they are creating a whole which is
a marvelous thing. Also I am not sure that we should be totally defining
usefulness from the perspective of the reader - I find reflecting on what
I would like to say and constructing them useful as well. In the struggle
to articulate what I am learning is more learning.....

Now I have done one of those long ones which I remember saying some time
ago I did not like!!

-- 

Julie Beedon <julie@vistabee.win-uk.net>

Learning-org -- An Internet Dialog on Learning Organizations For info: <rkarash@karash.com> -or- <http://world.std.com/~lo/>