Re: Is speed/technology really progress? LO63

Kent D. Palmer, Ph.D. (
Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:25:57 -0800 (PST)

Hello folks---

Well I have not yet seen the proceeding posts in this thread but I cannot
help bursting in here with a sidelight. To understand these
self-organizing behaviors we need a social theory of autopoiesis (the
technical term for self-organization, it means self-production but also
self-poetry thus bridging the gap between physus and logos I mentioned in
a previous post.) This is exactly the theory I have been working to
create. Nothing like this now exists. All these theories of
self-organization and computational and physical. And without a theory
that has some philosophical rigor behind it how can we expect to
recognize this kind of phenomenal at the human/social level. I consider
this the greatest challenge to creating a theory of learning
organizations. Organization implies a reified and objective view of
social groups. Learning is one way we deal with emergent phenomena. How
does human society itself become unreified to allow emergent social
phenomena to come into being? Which is to say how do social groups self
organize to create and receive emergent phenomena? I have tried to
develop a theory that operates at this level of questioning. Hopefully
others will do so as well. Because without proper Worldviews, Epistemes,
Paradigms, and Theories we will not be able to socially constuct facts
which are recognitions of phenomena that are emergent.


Kent D. Palmer, Ph.D. :Administrator of ThinkNet {aka DialogNet}
Software Engineering Technologist :philosophy and systems theory email lists
autopoietic social systems theorist:hosted at the Thinknet BBS (714-638-0876)
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On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Tobin Quereau wrote:

> Thanks for the comments, John. Your examples are very effective. I would
> expect that the human condition is one that illustrates the concept of
> self-organizing behaviors par excellance! The issue may be whether we can
> observe and understand the "emergent, self-organizing behaviors" that _do_
> exist, and whether or not we can _influence_ them effectively rather than
> "control" them. The effort at intervention and control just stimulates new
> "emergent behaviors" anyway....
> Tobin Quereau
> -----
> Host's Note: Tobin is replying to John's msg = LO39.